Canon 7D Versus 40D Expectations

[marcfs]

Hi Bob,

What difference in IQ and focusing should we expect when comparing a 7D and a 40D?

For macro photography, using the same 180L lens how will the IQ change?  Or what would you expect the differences in IQ to be if you haven't used the new camera?

There are reports on both the positive and negative side of the focusing system when used with Birds in Flight.  Some photographers on forums are reporting that when used with AI Servo the system is not holding the bird in focus even if the first shot is in focus and the focus point is on the bird in subsequent shots.  The camera is losing focus to the background.  Could this have anything to do with the way the camera is using color in its metering system?

Are you planning to gain access to a 7D to evaluate?

Regards,

Marc

[Bob Atkins]

I'm testing a 7D right now (for another site), though it will probably be a couple of weeks before I'm able to publish a full review on this website.

I've done a small amount of image evaluation. While the 7D has measurably higher resolution on bench tests using a high contrast resolution chart, real world images taken with a 40D and a 7D are surprisingly similar, in fact on a couple of occasions it's been quite hard to tell them apart, even at 100% viewing. If either is better, it's the 7D of course.

As for overall image quality all I can say at this point is that the 7D images look very good.

AF evaluation is very, very difficult because of the lack of any standard test. You can't get the same bird to fly over on exactly the same path several times so you can compare cameras! I have done some tests with cars (which are easier to control...) and the 7D seemed to do very well. On a car approaching at 35mph and using a 300mm lens the 7D held good focus right up to the point when the car was only a few yards away. Servo AF depends on the lens, the subject distance, the subject speed, the subject acceleration, the subject contrast, the light level, the focus points selected and possibly on the AI servo tracking sensitivity (which on the 7D is adjustable) if AI servo mode is being used. It's so difficult to evaluate that I'm not surprised that some users might blame the camera. No system is perfect, every one will miss some shots. I'm sure the 7D - and the 1D MkIV - aren't perfect, but it's hard to say at this point just how good they are.

[whizkid]

So far my personal experience with my 7d vs my 40d has been perceived faster focus and improved tracking of HS sport subjects. Faster focus especially noticed when using live view and phase detection auto focus.  I'm not seeing a difference in IQ but I haven't been using my better lenses nor cropping heavily either. I would argue the 7D has much better handling. The 7D's control changes and it's higher- res 7D LCD make the 40D seem a step behind. I installed a grid focusing screen into my 40D as I have my 5DMk2 and thankfully that isn't necessary with the 7D. Changing a screen can be a pain if a speck of dust gets on the backside or glass above it.

[marcfs]

Hi Bob,

Thanks for providing perspective on the two cameras.  How likely do you think it might be that for BIF, the camera is losing focus to the background?  Do you think that the new metering system and the way it is using color is a factor? 

To move one step further, I am replacing my 20D, and as I stated using the 40D now as a backup.  90% of my shooting is of birds, flowers and landscapes.  I am wondering if the 5D MKII may be a better choice versus the 7D.  Specifically, unless the 7D can substantially provide a technical advantage in bird photography versus the 40D, I’m wondering if I am better-off with the 5D MKII.  Is the IQ of the 5d MKII superior to the 7D?

I’m looking forward to reading your complete review of the 7D.  Hopefully there is some way to evaluate background issues.

Marc

[mjperini]

7D Vs 40D
As background, I started with a 20D, went to 40D, then went to a 1Ds III.
My wife & Daughter shoot Weddings & Events, and like the crop sensor cameras.
My Wife uses the 40D, My Daughter shoots Nikon D300's.
I added the 7D after the 40D took a nasty fall. I wouldn't have replaced it otherwise.
Based on professional use over a couple of years, and in direct comparison to the 1Ds and the D300's, I think the 40D is/was an incredible value.
The files it produces are just beautiful when properly exposed. It's AF is not state of the art, and can have difficulty in low light, but very competant.
The 7D has the potential to be a landmark camera for Canon, however I can't yet say if it completely lives up to a very impressive list of smart features.
In my first test I took the dogs out for a run. I just used a 70-200 f/2.8 Av @ f/2.8 & 200mm. In fast horizontal panning, not only was every frame sharp, but when the Dogs ran behind small trees & bushes that were 1/2 the distance, the dog was sharp and shrubs out of focus. I don't think the 40D does that. As he turned and ran directly towards me from 80 yards at high speed, most frames were very sharp, and the ones that were not were more operator error. My tracking was not smooth or accurate, and I didn't have time to repeat. I was in basic Ai Servo. The 40D would have had dificulty with that. Moving inside, dimmly lit I walked toward my wife, at twice the speed a "fast Bride " might walk and varied my speed. Over 70 feet all 30 frames were sharp.
The new controls, and new layout is Excellent, I am not really fast, but if you become proficient, I could see this as a new standard. (I'm more studio, landscape so I'm not fast)
Someone raised a question about image quality vs the 5D mk II. I would think the 5D would win that easily, I think the 7D focus would win easily.
The 7D has the feel of a next generation camera.
I edit everything in Aperture, but since Apple hasn't released the RAW update yet, I can't directly compare the two cameras in my normal workflow.
I only have one uncontrolled actual experience to report. While visiting a nursing home last week, My wife had brought the 7D & manual so she could use the long car ride to familiarize herself with the camera for an upcoming shoot.  When we got there there was a show in a large dark auditorium, & she was asked to take some pictures. So she set the Camera to Tv 1/125 & f/2.8 , iso 3200, & pop up flash in a dark cavernous space & a 70-200. (can you say RED EYE). These were not going in anyone's portfolio. They were all focused correctly,some had just bit of camera shake, exposures were uniform maybe a half stop under, noise was aparent, but not objectionable. The camera largely delivered even though we had the wrong lens, & no real flash.
I converted in Lightroom, which I own, but am not good with, so this is unscientific and unfair to the camera, but I am posting is as an example of a real world stress test (the kind we've all done, but are not particularly proud of) . The pictures I've taken under more favorable circumstances produced beautiful files.
This is very early, the camera shows a great deal of promise, and I love the build quality, feature set and handling.
If I had to guess based on early and incomplete use, Canon has a winner here. In direct use comparison to the D300 which is a really fine camera, I think the 7D has the edge.
The only questions that remain are full testing of the AF (there is a lot here, and a lot of customization available, so this is not trivial) and where the sensor falls in the continuum of resolution/noise/noise reduction.
My initial reaction to the 18MP spec was that it was quite ambitious. I can't yet say if it's a success or I'll be wishing that they stopped at 15MP & gave lower noise. The RAW files are large at 21-22 megs and add up very quickly.
I hope this at least provides a bit of useful information.

 

[marcfs]

Thanks for some excellent perspective.  Your experience sounds very promising.

Bob,

Thanks for providing perspective on the two cameras.  How likely do you think it might be that for BIF, the camera is losing focus to the background?  Do you think that the new metering system and the way it is using color is a factor? 

To move one step further, I am replacing my 20D, and as I stated using the 40D now as a backup.  90% of my shooting is of birds, flowers and landscapes.  I am wondering if the 5D MKII may be a better choice versus the 7D.  Specifically, unless the 7D can substantially provide a technical advantage in bird photography versus the 40D, I’m wondering if I am better-off with the 5D MKII.  Is the IQ of the 5d MKII superior to the 7D?

I’m looking forward to reading your complete review of the 7D.  Hopefully there is some way to evaluate background issues.  When do you anticipate that the review will be completed?
Marc